[Phowingt]

I finally decided to start adding some power to my 2018 2SS A8 after a year of owning it and was wondering about other people experience with PD vs Centri styled superchargers, and also which brand to go with.

Take into account that I daily drive the car so my primary goal is to be sure it is streetable and reliable so I plan to keep the power around 550-600 since that's what i've heard are some pretty safe numbers before you start running into any issues. I also plan to add a set of Long Tube Headers.

[arpad_m]

I have the Maggie with some additional mods @ 560 rwhp, and I'm absolutely happy with it. Perfect for the street with the JRE tune, yet scary fast when needed, it's basically at stock ZL1 power level give or take 10 hp. Never had a centrifugal, so can't comment on it.

One thing to note about the Maggie is that it doesn't whine like a Hellcat S/C, which I specifically like, but some people want a more distinctive whine.

You will need to get used to modulating the throttle, if you quickly floor it, you'll just spin. But I'm sure you already knew it.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I have the Maggie with some additional mods @ 560 rwhp, and I'm absolutely happy with it. Perfect for the street with the JRE tune, yet scary fast when needed, it's basically at stock ZL1 power level give or take 10 hp. Never had a centrifugal, so can't comment on it.

One thing to note about the Maggie is that it doesn't whine like a Hellcat S/C, which I specifically like, but some people want a more distinctive whine.

You will need to get used to modulating the throttle, if you quickly floor it, you'll just spin. But I'm sure you already knew it.

Agreed, PD is so great on these cars. Definitely the way to go. I’m running the Whipple and love it, so either that or a Maggie is a no-brainer.

[DorkMissile]

It comes to application and what you want to do with the car.

In summary:
PD adds a lot of air at lower RPMs, and are most efficient at 5k RPM and under. There is just limitations on how well the impellers can grab ahold of air and squeeze it. More rotating mass, more components, more weight than Centri.

Centri units don't grab the air well under 3000, but once they do they grow in efficiency until 7500-8000rpm (well beyond GenV small block RPM).

If you have a manual car, i would lean more towards PD as you will spend more time in it's power band, but with an auto you will have an easier time keeping the power in it's sweet spot. I have a centrifugal on a M6 and unless you are doing wide open pulls, it is hard to keep it on boost.

PD sound great, and they make a small block feel like a big block. The technology gap is bringing the point in which PDs fall off and Centrifugals start operating is getting narrower, but PDs are really hard to drive and get traction.

Have a friend with a 09 Z06 with a Maggie (many other mods) who is near 800 wheel, and he plays hell getting any kind of grip on the street. When my car was N/A I could murder him out of the hole, but at about the 1/8th he would be next to me and running away. Now that I have the Centrifugal my car launches near identical to stock, but it would take a mile or more for him to catch me (I am 700 wheel).

Sometime people also overlook upgrading down the road - for my setup if I wanted to go from a Novi 1500 to Novi 2000 or a Vortech head unit, it is take off the belt, remove 4 bolts and swap the units. PDs are pretty much a one and done situation.

[ShizzySupra]

Ooof. Lots of inaccurate information in this post...

1) Centri kit with A2A intercooler and components will weigh almost identical to a PD blower....

2) A centri kit will not grow in efficiency to 8,000 rpm.... it will depend on the blower, inlet path, heads, cam profile, etc etc

3) Hard to keep on boost? Fundamentally you dont understand how the blowers work... centri builds to peak psi towards redline. Higher you spin (again based on variables) the more boost you will get....

4) Saying a PD blower is hard to drive and get traction is beyond ignorant. It’s borderline stupid. Look at graphs of the average 550-650whp P1X/Maggie/Whipple on an LT motor...they are very similar even torque curves. At a certain point they both will need stickier tires... as far as launching, again, at a certain point the Centri’s will need a converter to aid that....

5) Sounds like your friend needs better tires or driving lessons on how to launch a manual car on a non-prepped surface. Either way too many variables to use in an argument of power adders.

6) Your example of upgrading is confusing. Upgrading to a bigger blower also usually comes with the requirement of changing from a 6 rib to a 8 (preferably 10 rib if you are making real power on decent sized blower.) and upgrading cooling options. Also the bracketry is different depending on what kit you start with. Also to address your “one and done” comment about the PD blowers: the 2.3 Maggie, Whipple 2.9, Magnuson 2650, and Edelbrock 2650 have ALL hit 900+whp and the bigger units going easily over 1000+... so yes one and done but 90% of buyers won’t ever need/fund more than 800...

Ultimately each blower setup will need the same steps as you increase power: better belt wrap/grip options/better cooling/better supporting components to push more power. Look at your ultimate power goal and decide from there.

Originally Posted by DorkMissile

It comes to application and what you want to do with the car.

In summary:
PD adds a lot of air at lower RPMs, and are most efficient at 5k RPM and under. There is just limitations on how well the impellers can grab ahold of air and squeeze it. More rotating mass, more components, more weight than Centri.

Centri units don't grab the air well under 3000, but once they do they grow in efficiency until 7500-8000rpm (well beyond GenV small block RPM).

If you have a manual car, i would lean more towards PD as you will spend more time in it's power band, but with an auto you will have an easier time keeping the power in it's sweet spot. I have a centrifugal on a M6 and unless you are doing wide open pulls, it is hard to keep it on boost.

PD sound great, and they make a small block feel like a big block. The technology gap is bringing the point in which PDs fall off and Centrifugals start operating is getting narrower, but PDs are really hard to drive and get traction.

Have a friend with a 09 Z06 with a Maggie (many other mods) who is near 800 wheel, and he plays hell getting any kind of grip on the street. When my car was N/A I could murder him out of the hole, but at about the 1/8th he would be next to me and running away. Now that I have the Centrifugal my car launches near identical to stock, but it would take a mile or more for him to catch me (I am 700 wheel).

Sometime people also overlook upgrading down the road - for my setup if I wanted to go from a Novi 1500 to Novi 2000 or a Vortech head unit, it is take off the belt, remove 4 bolts and swap the units. PDs are pretty much a one and done situation.

[ScatPack]

TVS or twin screw for the PD blower - forget the roots style. They heat soak instantly and are very inefficient. As for centri blowers you cant go wrong with paxton, procharger or vortech. I'd start with Paxton or procharger.

And rule of thumb is if you want top end power, get the centri. If you want off the line tire smoking, then get the PD. Personally I'd get the procharger. You can make great tq and big power, but it will still drive normal. Not that a PD wouldnt drive normal, but you will need to peddle a PD car if you are trying to race someone from a light.

[grampa_ss]

Here's my take

I have the A8 w/stock converter and launch at an idle. I do not have the low end torque of the PD blowers, therefore I cannot 60' as quick as they can. My best is a 1.7x (+3000DA). This is costing me 2/10's in the 1320. If I could cut a 1.6x I'd have my 10.8 (and even better at sea level).

From a roll, it won't matter. I'm at 5000-5500 and full torque on tap.
Car drives great on the street. I do run DR's for daily driving (except road trips).

[Phowingt]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I have the Maggie with some additional mods @ 560 rwhp, and I'm absolutely happy with it. Perfect for the street with the JRE tune, yet scary fast when needed, it's basically at stock ZL1 power level give or take 10 hp. Never had a centrifugal, so can't comment on it.

One thing to note about the Maggie is that it doesn't whine like a Hellcat S/C, which I specifically like, but some people want a more distinctive whine.

You will need to get used to modulating the throttle, if you quickly floor it, you'll just spin. But I'm sure you already knew it.

I noticed you have a rotofab CAI, I bought my car used and it came with a rotofab so will it fit the Maggie? Sorry if that is a dumb question but when I look at pictures of the aftermarket intakes that are on superchargers the tube from the TB to the filter housing looks shorter.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Ooof. Lots of inaccurate information in this post...

1) Centri kit with A2A intercooler and components will weigh almost identical to a PD blower....

about 10 lbs lighter for a Centri not including water... You can be sure if the PD was lighter SS would say so.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

4) Saying a PD blower is hard to drive and get traction is beyond ignorant. It’s borderline stupid.

You did say drive? Go ahead put street tires on your ride with say a normal wear rating of 220 take your cel, get a video of the tire jump into the car and do a couple of 0-60s or 0-100 and lets see you put 100+ more torque to the ground vs a ZL1 with no issues...

IMO any normal tire will have issues at the bolt on a blower of any sort to a LT1, which makes more HP with any blower vs a LT4 at these boost levels (sub 10 PSI).

Stock GM ZL1 performance figures:
Coupe:
0-60 (manual)...............3.7 seconds
0-60 (auto)...................3.5 seconds
1/4 mile (manual)..........11.8 seconds
1/4 mile (auto)..............11.4 seconds

To be honest I don't know if these are easy or impossible to match on a street surface, I'll leave it to the stock ZL1 owners to chime in.

Take into account that I daily drive the car so my primary goal is to be sure it is streetable and reliable so I plan to keep the power around 550-600 since that's what i've heard are some pretty safe numbers before you start running into any issues. I also plan to add a set of Long Tube Headers.

To the OP, any Supercharger will overwhelm the tire for any normal tire. My car is no faster FBO vs any level of forced induction to about 90+ MPH on a street surface with a normal 220 wear rated tire. I can do 0-60 from 3.6 to 3.8 no matter what is sitting under the hood. About a 2.0 60' time.[/quote]

The drag racers will immediately thump their chest about their drag car and how it performs on the race track with prep, which we all know is meaningless to a DD. For a DD (which mine is):

I so have a M6, so I'll defer to auto drivers on their DD; My car will break traction by easing into boost in all of 1st most if not all of 2nd depending on the surface. Basically 3rd gear is the first gear that I'm sure traction is NOT an issue. The is no advantage at all that I can see with a PD because it is simply NOT possible to floor my car till 3rd which is 80 MPH or so on my M6. I'm absolutely sure that the PD will break traction first going to WOT in any scenario, and I absolutely sure the PD will be backing off throttle sooner too. Because the torque is completely and totally worthless as it can't be applied to the ground at any legal speed on any normal tire which I'll define as a 220 wear summer radial.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409961


Let talk about the "torque" Torque is NOT a unit of work. The trans and diff take HP (a unit of work) and can put out FAR FAR FAR FAR more torque that any PD instant boost. 1st gear is 2.66 and FD is 3.73 = 10x the engine torque, 10 TIMES, GM backs off the 1st gear on a ZL1 because of too much torque 2.29 or 8.5x So the factory back off say 625 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels on the STOCK supercharger via gear selection.... How about 2nd ZL1 is 1.61 vs 1.79 that is 6.0 vs 6.7 that is say 450 lbs to the wheels less ... the factory can choose ANY gear ratio they want for their street car. If the Zl1 needed more in gear torque 1st and 2nd, you can bet that GM would have left the LT1 gear ratios alone.


You think the 4500 lbs Hellcat would need to get more torque (if we want to pretend said torque could actually hit the road),
https://www.hellcat.org/threads/manu...-thread.18815/

Yep the Hellcat has SIGNIFICANTLY less gear vs the 392 8.76x for the Hellcat vs 11.58 for the 392, so that means Dodge backs off 1st gear wheel torque by 33%..... roughly a 3x LESS engine torque to the wheels or 2000 ft-lbs to the street tire... If the factory thought they could use the stock PD torque to move the car, they would have left the 392 gear ratio in place. The torque IS not usable in the first two gears. I have given you two factory examples and my personal experience....

QED

I have no comment on what DR or slicks do on a prep track, and that is not the question.


I considered all blowers and my primary decision was the support and the tuning. I went with Pray and I am very happy. I was close to going with the stock blower and ADM, and there is a glut of these so once again IMO, it is your tuner and what type of support. There maybe a glut of all the older aftermarket PDs too (as people are going for bigger blowers now), so they all would be good. I can see that DIY the centri is pretty easy to install.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Phowingt

I noticed you have a rotofab CAI, I bought my car used and it came with a rotofab so will it fit the Maggie? Sorry if that is a dumb question but when I look at pictures of the aftermarket intakes that are on superchargers the tube from the TB to the filter housing looks shorter.

Not a dumb question at all. It fits fine, see Magnuson's website for photos of the intake tube hookup. I'll take a pic for you tonight. I have the original design Roto-Fab for the SS with the new 2019 dry filter element, not the ZL1 or the new big gulp model.

EDIT: added pictures (to those with eagle eyes, I've cleaned the intake filter element and yeah, I'll check and top up the coolant in the lower chamber).

[grampa_ss]

Oldman - Why not run a DR as your daily? For me...it's soooo worth it, even though I'll go through 2 sets in a summer. If you can't put the power down, what's the point.

[Phowingt]

What is the voltage booster I’ve seen so many people with and why is it needed?

[Phowingt]

I’m leaning towards the magnuson but was wondering if anyone that has one has taken the car on any long trips with it and if so did you have any trouble with heat?

[gotroost]

Originally Posted by Phowingt

I’m leaning towards the magnuson but was wondering if anyone that has one has taken the car on any long trips with it and if so did you have any trouble with heat?

Hate to be a killjoy, but I would just consider a used ZL1. Modded my 2010 SS and had to deal with the cam de-laminating along with a long list of mods. Ended up with a ZL1 1LE thanks to my wonderful wife and this is plenty of car for my driving skills and under warranty.